New Non-Custodial Trade Settlements

Hey,

I was just wondering what the reason for switching to non-custodial trades was? I couldn’t see a reason in the localmonero news article. Was it just to give full responsibility + control back to the user?

Feedback so far from buyers and sellers is pretty much 100% negative. Personally I don’t like the changes as it massively slows down the process especially for traders who buy and sell. Plus the extra fees for the additional transfer out and in again.

Also, Every time I sell XMR it generates a new wallet address for me and sends the XMR from that address to the buyer. Is the only reason I would need to access that wallet in the future simply just to view the single outgoing transaction? Assuming most people already have their own wallet and wouldn’t want to re-use the new address generated on the fly.

I do miss the instant transfers

1 Like

Hi Kevlar,

The reasons are: increased privacy, security, increased control over your coins, and fault tolerance (If the website is attacked or anything else happens to it, you won’t lose control over your coins). In our view the trade-off of these security/privacy factors is more important. We’re aware of the complaint and thinking of ways to resolve it without sacrificing non-custodialness.

If you’d need to prove sending, you can provide the cryptographic proofs of your trades from the generated wallet.

1 Like

Thanks Edward

I understand the protection it gives from losing your XMR if the website goes down. Though as far as I could tell most people transferred their XMR away from here anyway. You might know better than me whether that’s true or not.

Just out of interest, how does it make it more private?

Hi Kevlar,

It gives an extra layer of privacy, since the trade settlement is done in a non-custodial fashion. There’s better protection against on-chain and off-chain linking.

wher is privkey for my deposit address?

At present, the new update is safer and more convenient because the XMR will reach your designated wallet address after the transaction is completed, which is more privacy. Similarly, you only need to recharge the platform wallet when you sell XMR, but you need to add a collection wallet when buying XMR. Privacy is more secure

Well when it comes to convenience I think that must be subjective. Because for traders who buy and sell it is much less convenient. It also costs the additional transfer fees.

As for security. I was under the impression most people transferred away from site anyway to protect their coins.

I thought that it was already private before the changes. If the website gave clear advice stating that users shouldn’t use the site as a permanent wallet and the reasons why, then people have the choice and can make that choice knowing any risks.

From what I can tell, the new changes have only removed choice, slowed the process down and made it less convenient for traders.

I also grow more and more weary of having “security” forced upon me, and untrusting of people forcing it. Sounds very much like my bank

1 Like

seller knows buyer’s final destination address. imho this is anti privacy

1 Like

The reasons are: increased privacy, security, increased control over your coins

:thinking: Increased privacy, how? We can see the transaction, not before.
Security?? The coins go outside the site, this always be less secure and can be intercepted, address changed…
Control over my coins??? What does it mean? How?

It also force buyers to have another wallet, some new user don’t know how, they even can’t use the one in the site (a buyer asked me what is its goal though?), it costs fees, more fees if we want the coins back to the site…

A lot of buyers buy to send somewhere, but they want to be sure that they have the coins first so double fees for everyone.

There is not a single case where it’s more simple, effective, secured or private.

100% negative.
Oh and I even forget the 30-60 minutes delay.

2 Likes

As a buyer/seller the biggest problem for me is the delay from buying coins to having them available to sell. Maybe it would have been a good idea to wait for this Seraphis protocol to be implemented (if ever?) before going non-custodial.

However with regards to the supposed ‘advantages’ I would have thought there are 3 categories of user.

  • Those like myself who are buying and selling and who have to leave their coins in their local wallet in any case…
  • Those buying in large amounts for investment/privacy who most certainly would have been moving their XMR offsite anyway.
  • Those buying small amounts for buying other ‘things’ elsewhere who probably used to buy directly from their local wallet.

I don’t see any security advantage for any users.

1 Like

Edward,

Are you able to give an update on whether any plans have been made yet regarding the non-custodial settlements and whether the process will be amended in any way?

Feedback is still negative from my buyers and sellers. I still don’t fully understand how it’s more private now.

As far as I can tell, myself and other traders still see no benefit. Only a cost in time and money. Would be interesting to know there are plans to improve it and what they are.

1 Like

In fact, there are advantages and disadvantages. Previously, the transaction was completed to the wallet address of the user platform first, but now the transaction is sent to the wallet address specified by the user. Under normal circumstances, users will also withdraw coins after purchasing.

Hi Kevlar,

It’s a trade off to keep the settlement non-custodial. But we’re aware of the complaint and thinking of ways to resolve it without sacrificing non-custodialness.

Spending unconfirmed coins isn’t available in XMR yet, but it should be available in about a year when Seraphis is released. After XMR gets Seraphis, it’ll be just like BTC. We’ve made it such that speed isn’t impacted for BTC and we’ll be able to make it the same for XMR post-Seraphis: Seraphis: What It Will Do for Monero — LocalMonero

Nothing in what you say constitutes an ‘advantage’.

Why don’t you simply made the choice to send to an extern wallet for the ones who want?

But according to me, the intern wallet must remain the default and easy choice for buyers.

@Edward Moreover, the wallet could not be frozen anymore in case of troubles.

Only disadvantages…

Can somebody tell me what difference between automatic withdrawal after trade and this “non-custodial” trade feature?

On the surface of it there isn’t much difference. Your XMR would just go straight out to your external wallet. The underlying process may differ though.

If there was an auto-withdraw feature that withdrew your XMR from your website wallet to your external one after a purchase it could skip the creation of a non-custodial wallet which it currently sends the XMR to first, before sending it on to your external wallet. That’s about the only difference I can think of.

It really should have remained optional. The reasoning given by the admins still seems generic and senseless because I can now see clearly the buyers wallet address and transaction info which I couldn’t before so I’m at a loss as to how it’s more private for buyers.

As for being more secure. I guess they’re talking about not losing your XMR in the event of a cyber attack on the website. But unless they’re saying the website is insecure then I assume the devs and admin are confident that the site is stable and secure and the decision as to whether to keep your XMR here or move it out should be our decision. All the site needs to do is give users all the information needed to make a decision.

I actually do recommend manually transferring it out for long term storage. I only keep the XMR I intend to trade here on site. But for people who buy and sell here. The process has been slowed right down.